Berlingske ran an editorial today commenting on PM Lars Løkke Rasmussen's seemingly laughable plan to make Denmark the best integration nation in the world within ten 10 years. While the editorial contains the usual combination of navel-staring and blind optimism liberal Denmark has become famous for, a few interesting statistics were dropped.
- An Oxford study from 2007 has revealed a third of educated foreigners working in Denmark perceive the Danish population as "not particularly open or forthcoming".
- According to figures from the Economy and Business Ministry, 50% of immigrants who arrived in the 1990's had left Denmark again after ten years here. For immigrants who arrived in 2001, that time dropped to four years. [ed : my emphasis]
Four years? 50%? That's a shocking rate of attrition. But wait, Denmark has the world's best medical system. And there's that excellent public transport, and the highest standard of living. This is also the most progressive and open-minded society in the world - honest. And the happiest, don't forget that, it even made Oprah. Yet clearly top 10 lists are failing to make a lasting impression on immigrants, many of whom opt to leave again. This applies particularly to those who come here to study or work, as opposed to those who marry a Dane. Half of all people who are awarded green cards today don't even show up in Denmark. And Lars Løkke is talking about making Denmark the best in the world? Please, temper your expectations Mr Prime Minister.
What about the divorce rate for foreigners in a relationship with Danes? What about satisfcation level for foreigners working here? I'm pretty sure they have the data, it just wouldn't make for particularly good PR to release them.
It's noteworthy that Belingske's editorial talks about how Denmark wants to become a world leader at integration, and acknowledges that the closed and unfriendly Danish culture is a serious impediment for reaching that goal, but absolutely no mention is made of how the problem can realistically be addressed. Which come as no surprise, because for years the liberal government and its followers have been delivering fiery sermons about the perfection of this society, and how everyone else will simply have to do come around to doing things the right way, the Danish way.
The editorial does mention a cooperation venture, The Third Point, which gets immigrants and Danes working together on projects with fixed goals. See, this is what happens when you hire expensive team building consultants to solve national problems : you get solutions which work in tightly-controlled, laboratory conditions, and are easily packaged for reality tv. Reminds me of a stint I did in a Danish company a few years ago, which had an entrenched culture of bad leadership. The director couldn't fire his senior managers due to internal politics, yet his managers couldn't do their jobs, and lower-level workers routinely quit, greatly delaying project completion. When personnel presented a list of grievances, the Director ignored these and sent everyone on expensive team-building exercises. When the exercises were over, mismanagement went right and people .... quit.
Everything the government is doing right now seems to have more to do with skirting around the actual issues instead of facing them. Lars Løkke has to set these pie-in-the-sky goals because Danish industry demands it, and he needs to at least appear awake at the wheel. But we all know that as long as Dansk Folkeparti's is a fixture in his ruling coalition, Pia Kjærsgaard's dogmatic view of Danish culture is the only real goal we face. OM'er!
24 comments:
So THAT's why I'm still here, I came in '99 and so I'm statistically bound to be here for 10 years ... thank god it's over. :)
I think it's a good idea for anyone coming here on a green card to give themselve a very specific "best before" date on Denmark. Three months, four months ... whatever, just don't get stuck by convincing yourself "It will get better" because the odds are that it won't.
LOL! "It will get better"!!! LOL!
When?
According to our main man Lars - in 2020, still 11 years to go!!!
This Lars guy is a genius! No, wait, it´s not him that is genius, it´s Pia & Kristian! LOL!
Run for life dude! 2020! LOL!
An inconvenient truth for DF and Pia is that actually, the "integration" is going well these years:
http://www.information.dk/188457
This is, however, absolutely no thanks to what the politicians are doing. It's just that many people are actually doing well, even though most and especially xenophobic politicians would like them not to.
AGGER - Denmark REALLY needs to go away from that kind of mentality "Invandrere og efterkommere".
Try to say that to someone in America or Britain, and you´ll see how people will look at you and how insulted they will get!!!
Is there any point to mention other people´s background and remind them of their past, with all those negative conotations?
Of course not, it´s only Denmark that is playing on that card!!!
In and of itself, it is neither good nor bad, that immigrants stay in Denmark for a short term. In part, because there are many good reasons for a temporary stay, but primarily because not every place is supposed to be everything to everybody.
Not everybody will be happy visiting me in my home. Not everybody will like living in my city, but they might enjoy the neighboring town. Not everybody will like Denmark. If it is so, then let it be so, and let people be happy, where they are.
@ Anon, you write: Try to say that to someone in America or Britain, and you´ll see how people will look at you and how insulted they will get!!!
Is there any point to mention other people´s background and remind them of their past, with all those negative conotations?
WJ: In America they constantly use phrases such as african-american, irish-american, latinos etc. Peoples background are... no, let me correct myself; peoples great-great-great-grandparents background are mentioned constantly, especially in the US.
Anon: Of course not, it´s only Denmark that is playing on that card!!!
WJ: Try googling African-American and see how often that term is used, and how often it is targeted at (or used by) Americans, who have no connection with Africa. It is not only Denmark, that plays that card.
William, go traffic, it´s pointless to engage in any conversation as your views are Yuck!
Manky, did you hear the news on dr text tv how Denmark spent some DKR 200 MILL for the Image improvement??
Manky, did you read on dr text tv how Denmark did a survey on 560 newcommers (mainly from the non-western countries), and 8 or 9 or them painting Denmark in Pink?
Maybe after all dk Gov do care what your blog is about? Or maybe they want you to keep your mouth shut?
(LOL).
@ Agger
It is going better. Unlike what you seem to think, it IS due to the change of government in 2001. Not for the reasonms that you would have prefered, okay, but still.
How to tell ... well, before 2001 we had problems with hate-speaking - especially: somali - imams. That has ended. That's good in itself.
And it is remarkable, because in the countries we are so often compared to, this problem has far from been solved. UK is one.
Even if you disagrre with the present government,it is naive not to recognise that there are two sids to everything.
Yes, yes, I'll go back to play on the highway.
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Aaahhh, shhhhushhh Morten just shhhusshhh... here we go again, comparing, comparing... Mate, you´re not in a position to compare DK & UK, please leave that to Brits, alright??
For the record, DK is 28,5 years behind the UK on ethnic minorities´ rights, you hear me??
I love that "two sides" - in one-sided Denmark, ha ha!
Now, traffic, duttttt duttt...
Thanks for the link Agger. I feel kinda neutral about this. I think it's great that non-western foreigners are finally overcoming the workplace problem, but I too don't really know how much the current government have to do with it. I would concede that they probably deserve some credit, but they broke a lot of eggs to make this omelette, and while job force integration is going well, results from the last social integration report released by Copenhagen Kommune shows that foreigners and Danes still have below-expected interaction with each other (I'll get around to posting that story sometime, it's not new though).
Love the angle Information took on this, that integration success is bad for DF, and even other parties. One really gets the impression politicians would rather dribble the immigrant ball than put it in the back of a post.
Also, I feel I'm an integration success as per the government's criteria, but I wouldn't give them ANY credit for what I've done. I learned Danish myself, got a job because paying rent on time seems like a good idea, and tried to be socially engaging for myself.
One that I can say about me specifically : in the last 3 years I've given up trying to make social contact with Danes, not because I feel I dislike them (I came here with one, remember) but because I got tired of the confusing signals and unpleasant surprise outbursts. And in the last year I felt that if I was to continue living here, I'd rather go into business for myself so I can choose my own colleagues and maybe have a more open and international work life. So I can't help wonder : how many of these so-called success stories are just foreigners pushing harder to create their/our own parallel society? Does workforce integration necessarily equate to a foreigner who enjoys Denmark?
Anyway, nice to see some positive news, especially as it makes DF look bad.
I am nothing to go by, because I know more people who haven't been through the Danskification process than I know Danes.
But I see a lot of 'foreigners' after a while, having to give up on the Danskied, and accepting, often with a few tears of sadness, loss, rage or frustration that it's never gonna work and that it is pointless to try.
The people who call themselves Danes I know, well.. a few of them, if you met them, get this: they speak English as an act of rebellion. IN SHOPS! There is a tide.
Lots of people who have grown up here feel 'out of it' too. They might become drug addicts or other social 'losers' (translation of Danski terminology). Not making excuses for people pissing their lives up the wall, but really, you can meet a lot of very bright people on DK's skid row.
I was only happy here when I stopped bothering with Danskis, I've got enough friends anyway, it's not like I am missing the contacts now. But trying to fit in with the danski social pattern robs us of what makes us tick anyway, and I find that internationals here damage their chances of success and happiness here if they use too much energy trying to get a little clutch of Danish approval.
If we came here with a Daned, then we probably have to keep the inlaws quiet somehow, and most of us will say: oh I am very lucky, my inlaws are kind to me! But you know, we all know the score. Just rave about the æbleskiver and all will be well, and don't bring up your 'own' culture being in any way more fun than this.
Sorry, rambled on a bit. What I meant to say is that yeah, I know lots of internationals here who are a success and happy due to keeping out of the Danish pattern.
And what is wrong with that eh? We pay our taxes too.
DF hates integration. What would they do if people realized they didn't have to fear or hate The Other?
Check out these two news stories:
Foreigners can keep their pension
- We will get a number of benefits in terms of cultural policy because people who do not want to be integrated will leave Denmark, taking their un-Danish values with them, [Kristian Thulesen Dahl] says.
Immigrants feel well integrated
80 percent of immigrants feel well integrated and well prepared for entering the Danish labour market, according to a recent study conducted by the Danish Institute of Governmental Research (AKF).
They feel well integrated but should get the F out of here with their un-Danishness? Both these news are from today.
'Foreigners can keep their pension'..oh i weep in sorrow for the Danes who would like to leave Denmark as soon as they can get their pension and are now being trapped here.
I suspect that a lot of the "success" in the area of integration (whatever that is) in the last few years can be attributed to the until recently low unemployment. Danish businesses had to put their structural racism aside to fill vacant positions (simply because no "Jenses" and "Jans" ... I hate that terminology ... were applying).
The real test of this success is now on us in the downturn. Anyone recognize this: "Last to be hired; first to be fired."? I really hope this is not the case, but given the situation I'm not hopeful.
Thanks Amila!
And yes, I'm not sure how to interpret this "success". Seems to me the government is speaking on behalf of us and declaring us content when it suites them. They're also using a yardstick which suites their own purposes. Integration doesn't just mean having a job, otherwise most expats would be perfectly integrated, and in turn opt to stay. Neither is the case. I'll deem integration a success when I start seeing happy foreigners for a change.
As for the pension thing, it's just another sod-off cheque. Offensive, but hardly out of character. Still, I've worked here for ten years, and if I can have my public pension transfered out with me when I leave, all the better.
DF:"- It is a bait and a carrot in order to help these people return to their countries of origin. If people give up their permanent residence permit, Denmark saves tons of money even though people get to keep their social benefits for the rest of their lives, because we save on expenses for medical aid, social aid, nursing homes, and social workers, says Kristian Thulesen Dahl, who sees several other advantages in the proposal.
- We will get a number of benefits in terms of cultural policy because people who do not want to be integrated will leave Denmark, taking their un-Danish values with them, he says."
"It is a bait and a carrot"????? We are talking about humans, people, human beings, not donkeys!!!!
UGH!!!!
Link alert:
This is a story about something as unlikely as the popular Danish football team in the 80s:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/oct/13/forgotten-story-denmark-1980s
The article is quite entertaining, but it also has some points to make about the Danish "character", I think. Once again, the mediocrity based in laziness - once in Mexico for the world cup, the team dismiss the idea of staking all to win, because after all - "we're only Danes, nobody expected us to get this far anyway". So, we're "only Danes", and we don't do all this high-flying ambitious stuff.
This may all make quite well for having fun and relaxing, but may also turn nasty and agressive: These other people try to do things we can't do or don't understand, and we dislike them for it. There's an abundance of self-indulgent anti-intellectualism in this country.
The football article, entertaining as it is, maybe gives a glimpse of this very same thing from the "positive" side.
Mr. Manky,
The thing people keep saying about the impossibility of getting Danish friends or getting to know people in Denmark at all is almost eerily reminiscent of what I hear from expats in England: Many people find it hard to really understand English people and especially hard to get close to them. I know several people living in England, and according to what I hear it's normal that such people make friends with other expats, not with natives.
Alan McFarlane suggested (in his book The Origins of English Individualism) that this is because the English are very private and individualist and normally don't get as close to each other as people on the Continent usually expect. I know too little about it to pass judgement, but the reasons are probably different - maybe the English really are more reserved, and maybe the Danes really do tend to form friendships mainly with people they know since childhood (as I've seen suggested).
What strikes me is that this is not the case with, e.g., France or Germany - people who go to these countries usually don't complain that it's hard to make friends. People seem more open in these countries, perhaps. Like the US too, as some say (but then I've never been there).
"So I can't help wonder : how many of these so-called success stories are just foreigners pushing harder to create their/our own parallel society? Does workforce integration necessarily equate to a foreigner who enjoys Denmark?"
These are very interesting thoughts. I believe you are unto something. Our criteria for integration are all wrong. The real criteria should be sought for in the interhuman relationships - and a status of being employed/unemployed, f. ex., is irrelevant in that connection.
THAT is an aspect that really deserves to be investigated. But academicians are not so good at it, because it is kind of difficult to create a scale to measure it on. Then rather avoid it.
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Babs
Drop your lecturing and trivial attempts to perform censorship ;)
Who said you aren't just a troll ? Unconsciously, of course ...
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I believe you are unto something
To be:
I believe you are on to something
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Ok, he gets it - a typo :) Let's just let these slide from now on. Morten will promise to play nice. Right Morten?
Interpersonal relationships are one way to gauge. How about letting foreigners take the infamous happy test? Now I'm curious - one hear's so much about it, what exactly do they ask?
Actually, labour integration is the only kind of integration that is fundamentally respectful but what worries me is that the advances in this area in recent years are fleeting. Integration, as the term is used in Denmark (meaning assimilation), is a policy doomed to failure as it is currently defined.
Happiness among expats might be possible if the assimlationist attitudes lifted and Danes actually came to value and respect diversity and the positive contributions of people who chose to live here. As for "parallel socieities" ... those are called neighbourhoods in the rest of the world.
More and more people are so poor/worn down that they call on charities to get through Christmas.
This is a recurring story, but what's interesting about it this time is minister of Social Affairs Karen Ellemann's response: This is "gratifying" (glædeligt):
http://www.information.dk/217901
Which makes me think: All this talk about dangerous foreigners is really just a red herring while they empty our wallet (I also made this point in a letter to Information some weeks ago).
As for job market integration, I too believe that it's the only one that is important. Whether people intermingle or "assimilate" is simply none of society's or the government's business and is neither good nor bad in itself. Whether they get an equal opportunity is.
Danish views on socalled Integration are a disgrace and discussting.
Danes shouldn't even belong to the EU with their 4 socalled "exceptions".
If you don't like this and that "dear" Danes, then, oh well, you can just bugger off alltogether from the EU, who needs you anyway with your xenophobia and racism, to spread it even more??
We respect your "no" to all these 4 exceptions, but now would you please kindly politely just bugger off!
:-)
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